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The FURCer's Guide to Do Rite More Guderer
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Genothyst
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zex, you're throwing a fit at Alis for no other reason than the fact you probably take personal offense. You're seemingly angry (though I know you're going to say "lulz who's angry?? I'm not angry I'm too cool to even care ^_^") because Alis has stormed in here and accused everyone of writing like shit and then laid down some sort of rules that everyone has to abide by in order to roleplay to her standards. In reality, it looks more to me like she posted some rather helpful tips (and frankly I don't understand how you could get anything much else from it) and you got all on the defensive.

Your "nobody's perfect" excuse doesn't hold a lot of water. Just because we aren't perfect doesn't mean we cannot choose to try to improve -- nor try bestowing some of our helpful hints to others who just may be trying to as well.

And also, rewording and insulting parts of her post was just plain immature. Do you really think you're so much better than everyone else that you're entitled to tear her down and insult her just because you personally don't want to listen to what she has to say? That's so arrogant.
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Zexnon
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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Location: In mah belleh

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Genothyst wrote:
Zex, you're throwing a fit at Alis for no other reason than the fact you probably take personal offense. You're seemingly angry (though I know you're going to say "lulz who's angry?? I'm not angry I'm too cool to even care ^_^") because Alis has stormed in here and accused everyone of writing like shit and then laid down some sort of rules that everyone has to abide by in order to roleplay to her standards. In reality, it looks more to me like she posted some rather helpful tips (and frankly I don't understand how you could get anything much else from it) and you got all on the defensive.

Your "nobody's perfect" excuse doesn't hold a lot of water. Just because we aren't perfect doesn't mean we cannot choose to try to improve -- nor try bestowing some of our helpful hints to others who just may be trying to as well.

And also, rewording and insulting parts of her post was just plain immature. Do you really think you're so much better than everyone else that you're entitled to tear her down and insult her just because you personally don't want to listen to what she has to say? That's so arrogant.


Ah and so it begins...

No I personally didn't appreciate some of what Alis had to say, but I think that is obvious =) I figured I'd simply thrust my opinions out there too since it seems to be the trend lately.

I never claimed to be mature sweetheart, just blunt. And while I may have been the only one who 'threw a fit', I was speaking for several people in that post who also didn't appreciate how Alis approached the situation (excuse my run on sentence there teehee).

And to correct your last statement...I surely did listen to what she had to say, and I replied with my imput. Tis what debates are all about. This applies mostly to public forums where you put your shit on the table for many others to jump in on. If all they wanted was positive feedback, they should've kept it inner circle. Posting it out here leaves them open to dozens of thoughts and ideas...in other words, boohoo.

I never stated that Alis was completely in the wrong, no of course not. I thought some of what she said was insulting...just like you felt the same about me *giggle giggle heeee* So it seems pretty fair to me. Yes people should improve, yes the world should be smarter. But it takes personal motivation to do that, not down right finger waving.

If I want to improve, I'll go to someone who is a professional in the English language or what not...instead of some self proclaimed grammar queen. I may be the only one who has the balls to say it aloud, but I sure as hell am not the only one who thinks it Wink

Calling me arrogant? That's rich.

-Zexnon
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Alis Dee
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

Zexnon wrote:
If I want to improve, I'll go to someone who is a professional in the English language or what not...instead of some self proclaimed grammar queen.


More straw man (misstating my arguments then attacking those) and ad hominem (personal attacks against me) arguments.

I say I'm a 'self proclaimed grammar queen' would imply that I'd actually proclaimed myself as some kind of expert on grammar; I'm not and I haven't. In fact, I scoured external sources to find the correct grammatical terms (and examples) to try and describe what I could feel in my 'gut' as being bad writing. I had to re-evaluate my argument in a couple of places to fit in with what I'd learnt, too, and there's actually one major grammatical mislabelling in the post (which no-one yet has pointed out). I read and I write a lot but, like I said, I've had very little formal training in grammar.

Also, I like the assumption that I'm not a "professional in the English language". Actually, truth be told I kinda am; you mentioned previously something along the lines of that I'd work well as an editor. Well, a large chunk of my job is doing pretty much just that. Just for the record. Not that it's all that relevant; again see my point about dA and tutorials. My mum is a really good cook and a really good tailor; but she's not professional in either field. Still, when she talks about cooking or she talks about the fit of clothes, I listen.

Zexnon wrote:
And while I may have been the only one who 'threw a fit', I was speaking for several people in that post who also didn't appreciate how Alis approached the situation


I would love to hear from these people. If they don't feel comfortable posting here they can always whisper me on furc; I'm always happy to discuss any grievances anyone has against me.

Zexnon wrote:
If all they wanted was positive feedback, they should've kept it inner circle.


Yes. A funny thought that one.
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Olleander
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Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 193
Location: Far, Far Away

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alis

Firstly, I found your rant absolutely hysterical.

Countless times I have encountered people who griped, incessantly about that lack of flowery prose.

And maybe this is just me, but I'm a unpublished homo erotica writer, so I find using flowery prose pretty much gets me through any of the sex scenes I choose to write.

This rolls over into my RP time, I like using large adjectives and synonyms, hell, sometimes when I cant think of the exact word I want to use I type it into MS Word of go to dictionary.com and use the thesaurus option. (Mind you, I *know* how to correctly use the word, but sometimes when you've said that SAME EXACT WORD twenty-seven times in one post, you want a little variety)

From what I saw, you were mostly nitpicking over bad grammar and punctuation. (Both of these offenses can be applied to myself, my editor is forever calling me up at 2 am in hysterics because she's just added fifty two commas into a chapter only to find seven pages where I didn't even put in periods.)
(Here I must also point out that my editor is BRITISH, and tends to go into hysterics at 2 am because I've misused an English word, and then we fight over it's correct usage, until I point out that)



a.) I'm American

and

b.) As an American, I reserve the right to completely and unequivocally MASSACRE every English and Semi-English speaking language known to man because

c.) The American language is based in over (roughly) 100 different languages, and so

d.) OF COURSE IT ISN'T GOING TO BE PERFECT


It is HERE that I would like to point out that I noticed you are Australian, and that I'm 90% sure that a good 80% of people on Furcadia are AMERICAN.

And so, please refer back to a-d

[/b]
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Zadkiel
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 61
Location: The Golden Coffin

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olleander...I have two things to say in response to your post.

1.) If you are a man, I love you but not in a gay way.

2.) If you are a woman, I love you but in a friendly way.



That is all, carry on. Laughing
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Xxys
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 362
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olleander wrote:
c.) The American language is based in over (roughly) 100 different languages, and so

d.) Of course it isn't going to be perfect.

You mean the simple English language.
It's not solely restricted to America alone, as the English language itself is derived from countless others. We Aussies also use French, Latin, Indonesian, Maori, Aboriginal and countless other snippets of global languages in our dialect as well.

It doesn't matter how discombobulated a language is from the beginning with all other combined languages used in the one basis, as when put together: it all makes fluent, coherant sense. How one uses, expresses and authors under that language however does.

Olleander wrote:
It is HERE that I would like to point out that I noticed you are Australian, and that I'm 90% sure that a good 80% of people on Furcadia are AMERICAN.

What does being American or Australian have to do with this thread?
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Alis Dee
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post

Olleander wrote:
I'm a unpublished homo erotica writer [...] my editor is forever calling me up at 2 am in hysterics because she's just added fifty two commas into a chapter only to find seven pages where I didn't even put in periods.


What a coincidence! I'm an unpublished dark fantasy author! I've shown you mine; care to show me yours?

Seriously though, the argument "Americans are naturally bad at English so why bother" holds about as much water as the "teenagers are naturally bad as grammar so why bother" one Zexnon tried earlier. Not to mention I'd be willing to be there are a lot of American writers out there who'd be absolutely dismayed to hear you say that.
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